Proprietary and Free Maps

[the_kay]

This is a discussion about proprietary and free maps which began here. I continue it here because it was off-topic.

You can't change ANYTHING on the map without author's permission

You see? That is exactly what proprietary software leads to. If the author would have given everyone freedom to change the map the way he likes we would not have this problem.

This is one of many examples where you can benefit from free software in your everyday life.

Not to start a flamewar again here, but I used to include this "license statement" even in software to which I released the sourcecodes. The reasons behind that simply was I wanted to be asked, so I that I was informed what people were actually doing and changing, not that I would have forbidden it... please don't jump to any conclusions just because an author requests being asked for permissions before changes, some people are just stupid and the author may well better know which changes actually make sense and which don't....

If you say others are not allowed to change the map at all:
What exactly makes you believe you have the right to control the life of others? If you say "you can not change this map" you somehow control parts of their life. You say that you are the only person reasonable enough to make a good change to the map and this is simply not true.

If you say others have to ask you before they change the map:
This is less evil than not allowing it at all but there come many practical problems with it. For example it is not unlikely that you will either stop playing ut2k4 at all or forget about this map and loose interest in this whole thing. People change and so do their hobbies. Five years back I had different hobbies and in five years they might again.
If that doesn't happen, are you sure others can still contact you with your email address in some years? Or that your homepage will still be online? That can change, too.
And what if someone tries to contact you but fails because of the reason given above? He isn't allowed to change anything even if his changes would make perfectly sense.

If you allow people to change the map without having to ask for permission:
That'd be great
If you want to know about who changes the map, do the following: Add this note to your map:

If you like this map, or have any criticism, please send me an email!
This map is released under the Creative-Commons-Attribution-ShareAlike-license. That means that you are free to change the map and distribute copies. But you will have to say who are the authors and your modified versions must be published under the same license. See the page linked for details.
While you are free to change this map without telling me I ask you kindly to send me an email with your modified version since I was so kind to let you change it

[note: People who are not kind enough to send you an email are not likely to respect your copyright either so forcing them to contact you would not help]

[}TCP{Marcin.B.BlackT32]

In my opinion you can change level fo someone's ONLY IF YOU WON'T RELEASE IT IN PUBLIC. I mean that you just can have changed map for Instant Action play or LAN. Otherwise you need to contact with map's author. For example Mele made ONS-StorageFacility}{, but he asked me before for permision to change anything there.

[}TCP{Snowbird]

Most of us here, have made a map or 2 in his/her life. We know what we stuck into each level that we made. When I make a level, I say in the level info, that anyone can change the map if they like, just tell me what you are doing. I would like to see what is done. It is, after all, my map. I only want to see what is being done with it. Even if it is not good, I still want to see it. And this is where it really comes down to. Everyone out there has pride in what they do. If I make a map, and it is an OK map, then I would hope someone comes along and wants to improve it. I welcome all improvement. But what if someone says that the "TCP" sign in winter, does not look good. Then I would complain. No, that can not be changed.

I hope that I made my point about, "YES" it is OK for anyone to change my level, if I am asked and told what is going on, and "NO" it is not ok for you to take my personal feelings out of the map.

[}TCP{Ghost]

I say...when you change..do what the kay says..make sure the original author is given credits..and release it in the public, and yes, somethings like the TCP sign can't be changed,

[}TCP{Snowbird]

[Kobra]

for me thats no problem if someone edit my map but he should write in the info that i was the author and he the editor, no need to tell me if he could change couse i would say yes anyway

[}TCP{Wolf]

It really all comes down to MANNERS.

Kay is right saying that people who don't respect copyright won't respect anything anyway so forcing them todo anything is useless. Especially with maps it probably is especially useless because there is (as far as I know) way to obfuscate a map so the editor won't load it anymore but remains playable - there are such possibilities with source codes though, where disassembling can be made... difficult.

I already states why i employ such rules, simply because I feel that for stuff I put time and effort into - UTeamFix for examples has been developed for YEARS - I want to know if and what people do with it. This is my right as the creator. I always had the sourcecodes public for everyone to see, study and learn, until the day an asshole named Rush came along, copied the sources partly into a new mod, removed all the credits and sold it has his own work. From that moment on, I began including a formulated EULA, removed the sources, and obfuscated the packages (the main classes at least) so nobody except skilled hackers (and people like Rush are everything else but skilled) could reuse it.

I still included a passage that people could ask me if they wanted to build on UTF. Why should I forbid it? All I wanted was to be informed and that people keep the original credits intact. But people are assholes, they don't respect the sweat others put in their work, not even if it doesn't COST them anything... I mean, an email would have been enough, I never asked for money either or anything.

MANNERS is really all that counts. If something is really a good piece of work, I show my respect towards the author by following the rules he or she laid upon the world using it. It's a different matter if somebody just releases crap and thinks he's king of the world, not much respect to be shown there, but then the delete button is so close anyway.... nobody would want to build on it.

[}TCP{Marcin.B.BlackT32]

IMO: Someone who wants to change something on author's map should ask him for permision, coz its not good when someone is using your map as his own. Why? If he might screw something, but noone knew that he screwed it, then author of original map can be blamed.

[}TCP{Ghost]

Blamed for what? It is his map..he can do whatever he want with it, no one can blame the author of anymap, an author could very well place chicking with there heads cut off in a map, and you blame him? Lol its his map if he wants to he can.

But beside that, I think that copyright is very important, but I do not think it applies on UT maps, you can edit any map you want do with it whatever you want, but then it all comes down to manners like Wolf said.
Make the map, tell the owner. If the owner isn't there anymore, then there's also no one to tell.

[}TCP{Marcin.B.BlackT32]

I mean that someone lese can modyfy and screw author's map, so then everyone thinks that autor is responsible.

[}TCP{Ghost]

Yes I got what you meant lol, but why should the author care? He made the map, he can do with it what he wants, so if other ppl do something with the map and it is less the author is blamed? Why would he care what OTHERS think then..the people who play the map should deal with it..or play some other map if they don't like. People should be glad he took the time to make a map for them. And you talk about responsibility lol.
However you are right at some point. It might hurt the author's feelings if he saw his own work totally ruined..all the work down the drain. That I can see..

[}TCP{Marcin.B.BlackT32]

You don't get that every mapper wants his map be the best as it possible, so he wouldn't be happy if someone would modyfy\screw his map without his knowledges . Otherwise he must be a real masochist from medieval times.

[}TCP{Ghost]

Yes..but why would he care about what anyone else would say or blame?

[}TCP{Wolf]

Well some people DO CARE about their reputation...

[PingKing]

k lemme explain this once and for all the biggest honour for a mapper is to make a popular map it makes you feel good when other people like your map and say for instance little cretin changes your map without your permission and then you see your months of work ruined by 1 little cretin who can barely map well then that would not be nice.