PC Problem...

FlashMage · Post by **FlashMage** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Hi,

I wasn't sure whether this part of the forums was game related help only, but I was desperate for some input on this (and it is game related I suppose...)

About 3 months ago my pc crashed whilst playing ArmA2. It wasn't a proper crash, however, as the pc remained on, and I could still speak on teamspeak and heard sounds (the in-game sounds had frozen though). I saw a blue screen (I use my TV as my monitor) with the words "No input" or something along them lines. At this point I thought nothing of it, rebooted, went back in game, same again. So I left it for the evening.

For the next couple of days it was fine and then it crashed, again in the late evening whilst playing Trackmania. Again, I thought nothing of it and left it.

It stopped for a while. But over the last week it has become unbearable. I get through about 20 minutes of ANY game and my pc crashes like this. UT2004 for example. Play 20 minutes, screen goes, sound remains, leave it a minute, sound goes but PC remains on. Meaning a hard shut down and reboot. On occasion if left long enough, it seems to reboot itself.

At this point there are some things I need to point out. My pc was (until recently) only doing this when left on for several hours and then gone in game. Now it happens regardless. My pc has perhaps suffered from kicks from myself, when trying to stop it vibrating, and it has nearly toppled on occasion from me trying to get behind it (it's in a fairly inaccessible corner). I wonder if this has done too much damage to it...

I have not done driver updates for a long time, and have rolled back to the original for my graphics card. This is because of game crashes with newer drivers. As of right now I am allowing windows to update my driver (it is installing right now). I have also never cleaned my pc as I am worried what I am likely to do to it.

Here are my general spec's:

Intel Quad Core (Q8300) @ 2.5GHz.
4gb DDR2 RAM.
Nvidia GT220.
Vista Home Premium 64-bit.

I was just wondering if anyone knows the possible reasons. I've googled but results seem garbled to me. Is it an overheating issue? Internal damage?

I downloaded something to monitor temperatures, cpu was all at about 40 degrees (Celsius) idle, gpu is about 70...

Anyway, thanks in advance for any ideas...

FlashMage

menace · Post by **menace** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:14 pm

Delete Vista and get Windows 7 64 bit. update till service pack 2.

but if u still want to use Vista one of the worst OS ever try Driver Genius Professional Edition to update ur drivers and some cleaning tool.

but believe me when u see windows 7 u will forget Vista ( bah)

FlashMage · Post by **FlashMage** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:32 pm

Upgrading to Win7 is something I've been thinking about for a long time... but I don't think that would solve my issue here. I guess that you think it might just be a driver issue?

}TCP{Coco · Post by **}TCP{Coco** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:02 pm

It's hard to tell as the symptoms rather describe some general failure. My guessing would go towards the graphics card. It could be overheating, a drivers issue or something indirectly related.

I would do the following:

Check the graphics card fan for proper operation.
Download the most recent graphics drivers for your card, completely uninstall the old drivers, reboot the PC and install the downloaded ones.
If available, use a tweaking tool for your graphics card in order to turn off any overclocking options and manually increase the fan speed to improve cooling performance.
Clean up your PC - at least minimise the number of programs being run when your PC starts up. You can see all autostart entries when running msconfig (select RUN from the start menu and type it in) and selecting the appropriate tab.
If nothing helps, you could try to remove all extra cards in your PC, one after the other, until the problem is solved. In case your mainboard got a graphics adapter as well, you could also remove the Geforce card and test without it. This will help identifying potentially defective hardware components.

Independantly from all of this, a fresh install of Windows 7 would automatically wipe out any problems resulting from old drivers or a damaged installation, of course. However, I would definitely go for a clean install, rather than upgrading an existing installation.

FlashMage · Post by **FlashMage** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:50 pm

Thanks for the reply Coco.

There are a good number of vent holes on the side of my pc, which I can see through. Looks very dusty and I can see what appears to be a fan standing idle. Weird. Will open it up tomorrow and see what's going on.

Post by **}TCP{Carnage** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:52 pm

Well as u said in the game if the gpu is reaching 90c there is definatly something wrong with ya cooling there

Like i said on irc better open up the pc a take a looksie inside .. i think u will find a clogged up fan there

And while u are at it then u better clean the whole thing ( psu fan too ) just use a big soft brush and then blow the dust that comes out
out of ya pc

then after u clean it check the temps and fans should be much better then

NmS · Post by **NmS** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:55 am

Seems like an overheating issue. Open up the case, remove all the dust from all the fans. Then powerup the PC and see if the fan of the gpu is running or not.

FlashMage · Post by **FlashMage** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:54 am

Update:

I opened up the case and it WAS very dusty. I cleared it all out (with the help of my father as I suffer from asthma) and still no result, except the fact that it will now get to 90 degrees in game and will try it's hardest to lower it, succeeding when tested. So that's a slight positive, although I've only tested once, for about 20 minutes.

It seems it's a common problem with my card. Overheating, crashing, etc. I'm surprised it's waited this long to give me problems. On amazon.co.uk it has a rating of I think about 2.5 stars. Because many, many people have the same problem with the card. I think I might just upgrade it, having looked, nothing seems to work for most people. Tempted to get the GeForce GTS 250.

Anyway, we'll see, thanks for the help guys

}TCP{Coco · Post by **}TCP{Coco** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:32 am

Better get a Radeon one. The Geforce cards work with higher frequencies in order to keep up with the Radeons, but this is at the cost of more heating and the requirement for better (in most cases louder) cooling.

Post by **Pitbull** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:56 am

Until you get a new card you could try Rivatuner. This program allows you to adjust your fan speeds, etc.

http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?page=rivatuner

Post by **}TCP{Carnage** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:23 pm

Or perhaps add a casefan and point that directly on to the gpu card

FlashMage · Post by **FlashMage** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:11 pm

@ Coco

Thanks for the advice, I'll bear that in mind.

@ Pitbull

Been there, tried that, it doesn't work with my card. (as has been proved my numerous others with my card failing to use it too)

@ Carnage

From what I read, it would take more than one fan. I might be tempted to buy a fan and some liquid cooling but I dunno how much of a difference it would make.

Another option came to mind. My parents pc (which used to be family pc until I bought my own a year or two ago) is very old now, so I've offered them mine. I don't want much from them for it just a contribution towards a new one for me. Dunno if this will go ahead but if it does, then problem solved as my current one would be perfect for their browsing needs.

Post by **}TCP{Wolf** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:05 pm

Overheating would also have been my guess.

There are also a few rare PASSIVELY cooled decent cards out there. While by itself they usually run hotter on their own, when combined with good airflow in the case or a case sidefan they usually run a lot COOLER than normal.

I used a HD 3850 for years with a mounted sidefan and even after hours of gaming the thing remained even colder than my hand.

FlashMage · Post by **FlashMage** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:20 pm

Thanks for your reply Wolf. I was initially under the impression that fans and other cooling options would be expensive, but looking on the web, it seems I was wrong. I'll get some stuff to help to begin with then think of a new card.

Any recommendations for fans/cooling? I've not got a great deal of money to work with...

Post by **}TCP{Wolf** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:30 am

Fans come in pretty much all sizes, colors and qualities.

First you need to make sure you get the right size, typical small fans are 80mm which are usually noisy and not very strong, but most computer cases have slots for this size. In my experience, cases which only allow this sizes are rubbish and should be replaced with something that allow for airflow with 120mm or 140mm fans, because at that size it starts to get interesting. Smaller always means rotating faster and that means more noise.

Fans can be fixed speed, power managed or manual controlled. Fixed speeders always rotate with the same speed, power managed (PWR) have a mechanism that allows them to dynamically adjust their speed based on a reference value you define - for example, if you have a PWR case fan and connect it to a motherboard supporting PWR control on the AUX or CASE fan power connector, you can tell your BIOS to enable temperature controlled fan management and tell it what temperature to use as reference to control the needed speed of the fan. If you intend to add cooling to a graphics card, you should desist using that obviously, since you cannot tell your BIOS to check your GPU temperature! Alternately, you use a manually controlled one, then YOU have a little lever with which you set the speed by hand.

I usually just use fixed speed fans.

Airflow is usually measured in CFM, noise in dbA.

A typical example of a WEAK fan would be 44.71 CFM with 20.5 dB (a red XILENCE 120mm model) - this thing rotates at 1300 RPM and hence explains the low noise level, however, it also doesn't cool alot.

Typical decent / good coolers have values of 90 to 120 CFM at noise levels between 30 to 40 db, however noise level limit is very much objective as every person is different as to how much noise he can take. Also take into consideration that noise is dampened a bit by a good case.

Most fans are exactly 2 CM thick, however, there are a few special models which are thicker, allowing for blades that are differently shaped and thus improve airflow at lower rotating speed / noise, thus such fans can usually only be mounted FRONT / REAR and TOP, but rarely at the SIDE because they collide with your innards.

Need an overview of what exists?

http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Fans:::26.html

Happy fan hunting....

www.tcpclan.net

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PC Problem...

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